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"SHOP TALK" (Automotive - Truck - Motorcycle - Small Engine & Equipment)                  

An avid Rider from Sacramento , Calif. writes:  "I am retiring within a few months and I am looking to purchase a house on the lake near Lakeport. I love it there and come up almost every weekend and will be settling in the area soon. While I was looking up Lake County information on the Internet I came across your web site. I had not really thought about it before but I will need to get a new shop to take care of my Harley and other vehicles too. How do you know how to choose the best shop for repairs?"

I have asked Mr. Rider from Sacramento to try to use and follow as many of my "Ten Rules Of Thumb" in order for him to find what he believes is the best shop in the area for his needs. We will try and take each rule one by one and apply in a practical application to see what an unbiased objector's result will be. I have asked Mr. Rider, since Lakeport Garage / Ironhorse Creations will hopefully be one of the shops for his evaluation, that he be brutally honest about all his comments. He has advised me "That's no problem, that's the only way I will be". I have also promised Mr. Rider that I will post his findings positive or negative about my own shop. This experiment should be fun and I hope you, like myself, look forward to the results. 

"Ten Rules Of Thumb" for finding the right shop the first time. That has got to be one of the overall best questions one can ask. There are a number of factors that can be considered when choosing a repair shop. A lot of information is out there for someone to ask about and find before even stepping into an unknown shop. With that said, I first would tell you there are exceptions to every rule.

 #1.Rule Of Thumb: Word of mouth and especially in a small community. Keep in mind that you need to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges. The shop with the best repair record will be the most mentioned. If you're looking for the best price only then the best repair shop may or may not be on that list. Asking about the best shop or the best prices can have different answers.

Also consider whom you ask. If you ask someone who never takes their vehicle in for routine maintenance, than that person when they have a breakdown it is usually from neglect. The result: repair costs can be a lot higher and they may have a skewed perception of that facility.

When I hear people say, "Brand X shop does great work, but they’re expensive," you should consider that if the job is done wrong the first time, then what is it going to cost you to do again? What else can a bad repair job damage on my vehicle and what harms can be caused to driver / rider, passenger or innocent bystander?  A breakdown with our very busy business and family schedules can also be very inconvenient and even costly.

The exception to the rule applied here is if the shop has been in business 3-5 years or less. 3 plus years is usually what it takes for people to try the new shop, have a bad experience, realize their mistake after being greeted with a cold shoulder or even denied for warranty work. If the customer has a bad repair the first time then how will they feel having to do it over again? Then there’s the added amount of time for that information to be assimilated throughout the community.

Mr. Rider's Comments and/Or Findings: As far as I could determine there are a number of motorcycle shops in Lake County , and a dealership in the next county with a couple of independent shops there. I decided to only concentrate on the shops in Lake County first. One shop listed could not be found and no new phone number was listed. The word of mouth about your shop Lakeport Garage / Ironhorse Creations was an overwhelming good response in all aspects, I understand you have "We Will Beat Any Price Anywhere" policy but I did hear on occasion that the cost of repairs were higher, but they did add that they thought you have the best repair shop. I also heard you were into helping to raise money for local charities and that was a plus. 

The other shop's had some mixed results, and as you asked I will not mention any other shop by name. One had every part you could ever want or need but no one was sure if they had a service dept. Other shops were specializing in one form or another and generally had cheaper repair rates, but a couple had the word comebacks and unhappy customers used. A couple of comments that did disturb of two shops were that they are a bike gang outfit or club hangout. I'm not into that gang mentality and I am moving to Lake County to get away from all that, so if that is true than that's a minus for those shops.  

My Comments on Mr. Rider's Findings:  There are a lot of riders these days with patches and group affiliation, and a lot in Lake County . Most of these groups like the ones I mention on my web site are great people trying to do good things for our community. I would not judge a shop on a patch or association alone.

 About my shop policy "We Will Beat Any Price Any Where" all shops should have the policy or adopt it to save themselves headaches. Some may have restrictions just as my disclaimer on my web site says. Those restrictions are because some parts are discontinued for one reason or another and are no longer available. While brand X shop still has 12 of those items in his shop, I cannot beat a part price of a part I cannot get.

There may also be parts manufactures or new manufacturers on the market that I am not set up with as a dealer. There are of course other dealer restrictions that include that you cannot sell an item of theirs for less then list price. The reason they do this is so the dealers with the same manufacturer are not competing among themselves. If time is not an issue a savvy repair station can set up a dealership status with these manufacturers and get that part you want at the price you need. Sometimes these dealer set ups can be as simple as a fax of information and be set up the same day and others go through a company's check list and sign offs and can take up to 4 weeks or longer. Most shops will honor this type of policy if they are smart, been in the business for a while or just asked by the customer.

My policy is in effect not to undersell my competitors but for two reasons only. One: I don't believe that my customers and the people living in a small community should have to drive out of Lake County just to get that part they want at a price they can afford. Two: I don't want a customer bringing in a part for me to install they purchased from who knows where and that I would not recommend or that is inferior. In a case of a breakdown it creates a recipe for disaster between you and your relationship with your customer.

It is hard to explain that a new part can have a premature failure or that the new part can be bad right out of the box.

About my shop and pricing, I try to yearly evaluate my prices from other local sources and nearby dealerships. I try to price my labor in accordance to the standards and principles of the industry. I do appreciate you telling me that someone mentioned my shop being higher priced and I will look into my pricing.

  #2. Rule Of Thumb: A quick call to The Bureau of Automotive Repair (BAR). Or their web site at: http://www.autorepair.ca.gov/stdPage.asp?Body=/Consumer/verify_a_license.htm will reveal if the facility is currently licensed and if that facility has had past violations. No repair facility has the right to charge you anything without your prior approval. No repair facility has the right to do any repairs even if they are free without your prior consent. A current license from the BAR and a customer rights and entitlement sign must be visible and in a conspicuous location to be seen easily along with a current city or county license of operation. 

Mr. Rider's Comments and/Or Findings:  "Two shops had a delinquent licenses, so perhaps they do not have an active repair facility. Yours and others had current valid licenses with no disciplinary actions. I could not find licenses on two other shops. One shop I found interesting is that it is owned by a woman. Don't get me wrong there nothing wrong with that, I don't want to sound sexist. My wife runs and operates her own business successfully for many years and makes more money than I do, but a woman owning a motorcycle repair business was a surprise. I would like to talk more with this owner and find out why she started her repair business and what her experience and background in the industry is? She may be another Shirley Muldowney or the Motorcycle Hall of Famer Theresa Wallach. This alone I find interesting and unusual and if the owner does come a motorcycle background than I would find it a plus for that shop."   

My Comments on Mr. Rider's Findings: Good for you for using the sources at hand to find the information to draw your opinion from. As far as a license being delinquent, a shop does not need a BAR license to sell parts but cannot do repair work while their license is in a delinquent status. There is no reason for a repair facility to have their license in a delinquent status ever. If a shop is changing from a parts and repair facility to strictly retail selling then they must submit a form of cancelled to BAR. If in the case of my shop you have two facilities that merged together, Lakeport Garage / Ironhorse creations at the same address, then in that situation BAR only allows there to be one license permitted at a single address. So I cancelled my Ironhorse Creations Bar License and it is the motorcycle retail sale's end of the business while Lakeport Garage is the repair facility with the current BAR license.

As far as finding current licenses on businesses, remember you’re looking for it from a Calif. State agency and sometimes their information is slow to get online. Also if you do not match the name and information of the shop up correctly the web search can give you a bad or non report of that business. If one wants to be sure then all one does is makes the simple phone call to Bureau of Automotive Repair at 1-800-952-5210

 #3. Rule Of Thumb: For all you Internet people use your search engines like Google to look for information on a business, owners, or mechanic's name. You will be surprised how much information good and bad is out there for you to gather in the confidence of your own home.

Mr. Rider's Comments and/Or Findings:  "You are right; there is a lot of information on the web." (Mr. Rider did find information that was verified and of public access. While this information did not involve the business or business owner, the fact that the business owner and mechanic are common law wife and husband does open the door to review.} http://www.investmentloss.com/RobertBise.htm / http://www.finra.org/web/groups/enforcement/documents/monthly_disciplinary_actions/p007434.pdf 

"While this remains on the Internet and obviously not settled I would not trust this mechanic with my repairs and money. If I would not trust the mechanic then how could I trust the shop?" The shop in question also has a delinquent BAR license too!" http://www2.dca.ca.gov/pls/wllpub/WLLQRYNA$LCEV2.QueryView?P_LICENSE_NUMBER=236544&P_LTE_ID=1101

My Comments on Mr. Rider's Findings: I did look up the Google search information you supplied me. I contacted the law firm to make sure this was a legitimate site and of public record and it is. The site has been updated daily since 2004 lending me to believe there are ongoing actions or that some part of the fine and suspension of this mechanic that has not been satsified to completion. With the fact that the business is not in this mechanics name now but was in the past would also lend to make me believe he is hiding from further litigation or responsibility of one. Perhaps the owner does not know about this information but since they are common law wife and husband I would think this to be highly unlikely. Perhaps the owner does know and has dealt with it in a way to insure the owner that there will be no problems or unethical dealings in that business. After all the owner of record is the one that if anything diverse happens in that business the owner is the person who will be responsible. I'm sure a smart business owner would have themselves covered. That is why BAR makes a repair facility have the record of owner on file and responsibility for anything that may affect the consumer while dealing with that business. The BAR license and owner on record overrides any other City or County license. The State makes it clear that the person on that BAR license will take full responsibility for every customer and consumer that deals with that business. Their Property and Financial holdings are all in jeopardy to any diverse action brought about and proven by the consumer. With that said any smart business person would know about any and all information regarding these laws and their employee’s background and should have measures in place to avoid any problems. 

The BAR license being in a delinquent status is something that should never happen. With all these things combined would seriously question what is really happening there. Keep in mind that while the BAR license is in a delinquent status the repair facility is in violation of the law if they are performing any repairs and if caught they can be fined and in some cases closed.   

#4. Rule Of Thumb: Business hours and days. Does the shop keep regular business hours and are they committed to being there everyday to accommodate your busy schedule. Many businesses treat their business as if they were on vacation. Coming in late or leaving early, perhaps not coming in at all. It always surprises me when a new business comes to town and I go there or call for the first time to see about a purchase or service and there not open, and sometimes even when the hours are clearly posted on the door. The business then wonders why they have no business or blame everything or everyone else for their failure. The most inconvenient and aggravating thing to a customer is to take off early from work or go out of your way to get to the shop before they close only to find their long gone. Perhaps your vehicle is being worked on at that facility and they decide not to come in or arrive late or leave early. A shop should also have accommodating business hours like 8:00 am-5:00 pm . Not banker hours or times that just make it impossible for the working class to schedule. If you're sure what the shop hours are and you call more than two or three times and there is no answer, don't add that shop to your list. If you are an existing customer and you have found the shop not open or answering their phones more than twice without any apparent reason then think about seeking another repair facility.

Mr. Rider's Comments and/Or Findings: Most interesting is your shop was open Mon-Fri 8:00 am to 5:00 pm consistently. But you are not open on Saturday’s like most motorcycle shops? Other shops were the standard Tuesday through Sat while a couple others were a lot less consistent. They were either opening late or closing early on a regular basis as if they did not care.  

My Comments on Mr. Rider's Findings: It's amazing how much information you can gather with just a few phone calls. Look at all the information you have gathered so far without any risk. All shops should have a consistent open hour of business. A lot of people move to small towns to retire then become bored and decide they want to work part time, or businesses become lazy or like you said just do not care. But the customer should be made aware of this ahead of time. As for my shop we deal with automotive repair as well and that's why we are open Mon-Fri. We are open Saturdays during the summer season.

These other shops you mentioned are dealing with just motorcycle repair and perhaps do not have a whole lot of work during certain times of the year, but there are still many things that can be done at a shop to keep those business hours regular. If something should come up or the owner needs that overdue vacation or unexpected emergency then have an answering machine and note on the door for their customers.

 If a customer needs to drop off or pick up their vehicle on the weekend during my off season time then I will come down to accommodate them. I also provide rides home and pick up customers in Lake County which some shops have but most do not because lack of manpower.   

#5. Rule Of Thumb: Your potential shop appearance and operation. A shop that’s busy is usually a good shop. A shop that has been in business for many years to is usually a good shop too. They have to be doing something right to stay in business for so many years. A shop should be orderly and clean. An orderly shop keeps employees being productive without undue distractions. Some shops will not allow the customers to talk with the employees because that can cause a distraction while making repairs on vehicles. Most shops do not allow their customers in the repair area because of liability, do not take either personally. If questions arise on a repair I like my employees to talk personally to the customer and if a repair needs explained with a visual inspection then we do so in the repair area under a controlled environment. It means we all stop what were doing, watch out for the customer’s safety and escort them in and out of the repair area in a safe manner. Employee distractions and personal phone calls should be kept to a minimum. A clean shop is a safe shop for the customers and employees. A shop inside and out should be free of debris, garbage and overgrowth of grass or weeds.

 A shop should have newer and up kept equipment to deal with all the new high tech vehicles. A good example (but can be any vehicle type repair facility) is a motorcycle shop without the basic mount & balance tire machine. You would not believe how many motorcycle shops are without these basic machines but are still selling tires and charging the customer to mount & balance the tire and wheel. You have arrived at a new shop and trust that they will do a simple tire repair or replacement job correctly and safely and without damage to the wheel, but what you don’t know is that they are having someone else or some other facility do the repair. You’re counting on the shop you took your bike to for the correct job, and their now counting on whom they take your wheel and tire to also counting or hoping that the job is done right. If you have a problem with the repair who is responsible? Without newer equipment and tools your repair is being compromised.

In the case of a motorcycle and riding on just two wheels you are putting yourself and your passenger’s health at serious risk. When the only tool you have is a hammer you tend to treat everything as a nail. Is that how you want your vehicle repair approached? My first question to a motorcycle repair facility selling tires would be, "do you have your own machines to do the mount & balance of the tire and wheel?" If they say "no" then run, what other basic equipment and tools is that facility lacking. Also keep in mind that if they are having some or part of your repair done somewhere else without your prior consent then they are in violation of the law. The facility can be fined and/or their license suspended. 

Mr. Rider's Comments and/Or Findings: "Ok, where do I start? Your shop always looks busy. You’re very easy to find right on  Main St . Your shop building and grounds are clean and organized. You have a nice bench out front for sitting. With your invitation in your shop I did notice your very nice Snap-On tire mount & balance machines with a variety of clean newer looking equipment. The next shop was new and was set up to do more engine machine work and rebuilding, it had what looked like very nice and expensive looking equipment. I could not locate one of the shops yet. Another shop was very hard to find. It was finally located in a building complex. I went with a friend so I did not get a chance to look around real well. 

I also noticed a Craftsman tool box similar to the one I have at home. I thought all professional mechanics have Snap-On or MAC tools? There was a big biker's club flag upstairs in what looked to be lounge or bar area. So it is as been told to me to be a biker's clubhouse. 

The shop was toward the end of the one way in and out complex. It was very hard to get in and out and especially turned around. The entrance also had a very steep upgrade so you had to keep your momentum up while not being able to see the top clearly and then try and avoid any obstacles when reaching the top, and there is a lot going on and lots of obstacles. The same for coming back out and down the incline. You have to stop for traffic and when I did I was at such of an angle that both feet could not reach the ground. 

The last shop I could find was very unusual to say the least. It must be one of your exceptions to the rule. People are right it has every part you would ever need but trying to find the part in that mess must take an act of congress, Very dirty and unorganized in my opinion. I understand that they have an off site or independent mechanic that they refer people to that is he very good and especially good on the older style motorcycles. I have not seen or talked with this gentleman but by word of mouth do look forward to it.   

My Comments on Mr. Rider's Findings: My shop is very busy and we have state of the art equipment including as you mentioned Snap-On tire mount & balance machines, scanners and software to interface with onboard computers, gas analyzers and fuel ratio snifters, headlight adjustment equipment, machine lathe, valve refacing machine and seat cutters, along with thousands dollars worth of special tools and equipment. With the motorcycle industry getting heavily involved in the computer and fuel injection age it is very difficult for a shop doing vehicle complete repair without all this expensive equipment.  As for the other shops that is why some specialize normally so to not have to buy so much equipment.

As for the Craftsman toolbox I have seen some of the best mechanics work out of a handmade wood tool box, so the Craftsman tool box is no big deal. Craftsman tools are guaranteed for life and are a very good tool at an affordable price.

You are right about the other shop it is the exception to the rule. They have been around a long time and really can wheel and deal on new and used parts, especially the older hard to get parts. With their BAR license in a delinquent status if they are performing any service, including even just tire mount & balance work then they would be in violation of the law. But as you indicated they have some offsite independent mechanic doing the work.

#6. Rule Of Thumb: Your potential shop owner/manager and employee’s attitude and appearance. Shop employees should always have uniforms. Uniforms are an indication of respect for their customer’s and regard toward themselves and their job. Uniforms make it easily to distinguish employees from a customer which makes it more comfortable to new customers. Uniforms should be clean as much as that day’s job will permit in order to keep dirt and grease out and off of your vehicle. Uniforms should have the company name and the employees name making it easier for a new customer to transition in a new environment. Uniforms many times will have patches on the shoulders signifying special qualifications or certifications in a certain training and testing. Look for patches on uniforms. They are often the sign that you are dealing with a highly qualified and knowledgeable shop and employees. Employees should maintain good hygiene and appearance. All employees and managers need to be polite and respectful. Treat everyone like you yourself would like to be treated and the customer should accept no less.

Mr. Rider's Comments and/Or Findings: Your shop and employees all had very nice uniforms. Your right it looks very professional. I did notice the patches of certifications and years of service on your uniforms very nice. I am not sure what the different industry identifications stand for could you explain them to me? AMI, ASE, A/C, & Diesel, Certified.

My Comments On Mr. Rider's Findings: AMI - "American Motorcycle Institute" or "American Marine Institute" Certified Mechanic. ASE - (National Institute for) Automotive Service Excellence. Certifying the automotive professional in the various fields of auto repair. A/C - Air Conditioning Qualified Technician, Diesel Certified Mechanic, Electrical, Automobile Advanced Engine Performance and Certified Master Mechanic. 

#7. Rule Of Thumb: Shop security and location. If the shop’s location is in a remote area, the chance of theft or vandalism rises to your vehicle. Is the shop in a multi building complex or have other connected buildings and businesses connected to it? Grouped buildings raise the likelihood of fire by making it not only the shop owners concern for fire safety in their own shop but also the concern from their neighbor’s shop. Does the shop have enough room for your vehicle to be left inside? Does the shop have a lock gated area for overflow of vehicles? Shops that are dealing with high end automobiles and expensive motorcycles must have a security system installed. Be sure to ask if they have such a security system in place. A security system should consist of a noise / glass breakage sensor, heat / smoke detector and a motion detector. Be sure to ask where your vehicle will be stored when the business is closed. Does the facility have the proper Insurance coverage for your vehicle? I bet if they don’t have the basic shop equipment needed for repairs than they probably can’t afford the proper insurance needed or may have no insurance at all. Ask to see a current copy of their insurance policy. I keep mine right at the front desk for anyone to verify.  

#8. Rule Of Thumb: All businesses in this modern society should accept some form of credit cards. We have generated into a world of carrying less cash and paying everything with a card. Businesses that will not accept credit cards are possibly people that have bad credit and cannot apply to accept credit cards or possibly they are running from debtors and cannot put anything in their name and/or hiding money transactions for one reason or another, none of which are good for you. Perhaps they just cannot afford the cost which brings us back to the question if that cost cannot be afforded then what other areas are being compromised in the business. Accepting credit cards is a convenience to the customer and in emergency breakdowns and repairs on high end vehicles being expensive credit cards may be the only means of a customer to pay. The exception to the rule here are Businesses with that old school mentality, not many of them left. Perhaps a business dealing with small amount transactions or into their final years of business and just don’t want the extra cost as they approach retirement.  

#9.Rule Of Thumb: People make mistakes and you can even get brand-new parts that are bad or have a premature failure, but it is how it is handled and communicated back to the customer that makes the difference and must be done with complete honesty. If we in the industry make a mistake, we tell our customers the honest truth. If we install a part that fails we consider that a no charge warranty issue even though we have nothing to do with the manufacturing of that part. The best repair facilities will always use the best parts which will help to insure against a part failure but in turn will usually also increase the cost of the repairs. Sometimes a compromise with a recommended part and a less expensive part are made from time to time due to a customer financial situation, But the risk of using a cheaper or unfamiliar type part should be explained. While customizing of a vehicle is a personal individual preference and is not so much an issue, engine and safety parts are critical and should not be substituted for cheap or inferior parts. If it is not a part that I would install on my vehicle then I will not install it on your vehicle, take it to the cheaper shop down the road. 

#10. Rule Of Thumb: Last but not least I will mention the customer who likes to buy their own parts. A repair shop business has to sell the part at a reasonable marked up value to stay in business. It first provides the shop with the extra income to pay all the extra costs, equipment and insurance needed these days to run a modern business. Second it provides the added income safety net in case you do have a part failure and need to do a warranty repair. My shop has a "Beat Any Price, Anywhere" policy and that is to insure I am getting the best part and the right part for my customer and for the job. The same policy goes for labor prices at our shop as well, I don't want one of my customers taking their vehicle to an unknown repair facility just because the business is putting on some sale and discount work, You know the old saying "you get what you pay for." I do not want my customer who we have a good business relationship with and most of the time friendship with to be burned somewhere else to save a buck. If someone is going to buy the part and then have a shop install it check with the manager or owner of that shop first. Some shops will not do a repair unless you buy the part from them. Most good shops have policies like ours and are happy to get the part for you at the same or lesser price and can discuss your choice and quality of the part before your purchase. Most shops will not honor warranty issues if the problem is due to part failure that was purchased by the customer somewhere else.

In a lot of parts manufacturing companies they sometimes goof up a casting mold or get the specs out of sync and they will not know until they get overwhelming calls of complaints. A lot of times they will go ahead and sell them as seconds or as the industries call blems. Tires are another good example, when a customer finds some great deal on-line on tires and then expects a shop to install them that is a recipe for disaster. I restock my tire inventory every year with new fresh tires; does the person who buys from some wholesale outfit know how long that tire has been sitting around in inventory? What about recalls on parts and tires, these outfits don’t know and they don’t care. Tires are one of the biggest business liabilities there is. I would prefer to sell my customer a tire at cost then for them to take a chance on an unknown tire source.